Why self submitting to social news sites are wrong
by Stii
With reference to my post last week calling for down voting on Muti to be brought back, I had a lot of people trying to justify why self submitting their blog posts are okay. I think I should explain why it is NOT okay, since it seems like it is not obvious.
Let me start by saying that MOST self submitters calls for the solution that Muti should go more “mainstream” which would result in a better experience. Although this is all good, one must remember the following:
a) Non-blogging (a.k.a. mainstream) users will use Muti for what it is meant for.
b) Blogging users wants it more mainstream because they’ll get even MORE exposure and traffic to their site. I.o.w. they’ll exploit Muti even further for self gain.
I think there is a very particular misconception about what Muti is. In all fairness, nowhere on the site can I find a definition, so let me explain to you the purpose of any social news site.
Social News is supposed to be a democratic view of what is considered interesting news by the users / community.
What is currently happening on Muti is the following:
I submit my own content for one reason, and one reason only. I submit it to get traffic / readers. In other words, I use the social news site as a source of traffic to my own content. Fuck the true purpose. No matter how you argue this with me, if you self submit, this is what it comes down to in the end. Now what is also happening is that I’m not going to vote other stuff up. Why? Simple. If I submit my own stuff, I cannot (unless I’m really gaming the system and have multiple accounts) vote up my article any further since my submission already counts as a vote. So I rather don’t vote on other stuff and hope (or ask my friends) my post gets a couple of votes thus ending up high on the hot page, sending me lots of traffic. Nice. Nice for me, not necessarily for anyone else.
This is exactly my gripe with Muti. The users are exploiting it for own gain, instead of using it for the benefit of the community.
Let me state this though: If it does ever go mainstream and mainstream users don’t like what they see, they’re not coming back. I’d love to hear the speculation of what the next solution would be.
On a different note, I just saw this precious little thread:
idhorat : “ok, i have run out of mod points. 6 Self posts, once again. If you look at he/her history, all posts are for www.algoafm.co.za. Pls mod! ”
nicharry : “Ive tried to mod, gave up cause no one else (other than you and me) were modding them. ”
Both Nic and Ismail argued that down voting is not a good option and modding is much better. Ahhh I love the smell of irony by tea time! ;-)
No no no stii. I didn’t argue that downvoting was bad – ok no wait, I might’ve but there’ve been so many discussions on this and over such a long period of time that I can’t remember anymore – most recently I argued that downvoting was a very good thing if there were enough people on muti to make any sort of change valuable. It’s not valuable if one downvote can alter the entire ranking (which it can right now).
I’d like to mention that I have moderated many many many many posts on muti to great effect, even some of my own and close friends. So I think they do what they were intended to do, just not necessarily effectively enough IF THERE AREN’T ENOUGH USERS USING THEM. therefore it falls flat, like downvoting will and like upvoting does. In essence the point is, the community is too small.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with self submitting . Provided that you don’t:
1)Spam by submitting *every* post from your blog
2)Only submit your own posts.
There are algorithms(I know Digg has one) that check’s how many times you vote(or digg) your own articles compared to other articles that the community submitted.
Just a quick note on the effectiveness of downvoting. A single person modding an item effectively removes that item from the hot page (well what it really does is lower its “hotness” dramatically). Thats why downmod points are limited, you need to be a longtime and regular poster and voter to earn mod points as they are way more effective than just the opposite of an upvote.
@Stii as always thanks for blogging about these things, we will get there eventually ;)
Nice post Stii man ;-)
I tend to agree with @nicharry and @ash though.
Nothing wrong with selfposting as long as some rules apply.
If you only post your own posts u need to wake up, this is not an advertising board.
However if you do give of your time to link to other interesting and not junk items then you should be able to link to your own articles if its interesting. The community will soon decide if your posts are good or bad.
So yes I think self posting is ok, if you respect the community and do not self post more than 2 posts in a row.
Point is also, sometimes i post like 5 posts in a row from news24, because i am reading on news24 and i like the news i am reading so share it. this doesnt mean i am selfposting, because i dont have any ties to news24. so there are many factors to take into account.
Anyway thanx for starting a conversation, thats the whole idea of the community ;-)
Muti is very much about circle jerking at the moment, I see the same topics submitted by the same people, however, I don’t necessarily think this is a bad thing. I visit more than once a day and always find something useful to read, whether it’s people submitting their own posts or not, that really doesn’t bother me at all, PROVIDED the links being submitted are not about rubbish, spam or affiliate linking sites.
That’s my 2c.
@Stii – Is it just me but since you posted your first post about downvoting the activity on muti has risen, reminding everybody to post interesting stuff and not just rubbish content about themselves and their lives.
I could also agree that I’ve seen numerous time the same guys posting their own links on Muti, and then have the “circle of friends” and collegues voting them up into top spot.
I reckon this kind of thing could only be stopped or reduced by either good mechanisms like your discussing here, and also more numbers. If there are more people using Muti, the less likely some guys would be to get their own sites to the top with their circle of friends.
As Chris said, that is my 3c. ;-)
Hehehe, there you go Arné. Sometimes hissy fits does the trick, but i doubt it would for long. Lets see where this goes.
Stii, agreed on the self submission bit, though i still think the odd self submission is ok. Regarding the mod poiints i still believe this is the best solution. Since then i am back to 10 mod points, it took a few hours. So i am able to mod again. Once again due to a low number of mod points i had, i have to choose wisely(so this stops abuse of down voting) as well as encourage submissions so i can get more mod points.
The way I see it, this is only an issue because Muti doesn’t have the critical mass of users and submitters required for the type of service. Self-submission is a non-issue on Digg.
I’ve NEVER seen muti before… That was a very cool site. I’ve had so much trouble with spam on my social bookmark, I want to know how they deal with it so well.
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